Invincibles, it is a merry-go-round. There are still those that look at the substantial evidence about how to judge AW and choose to defend him to the end. Then there is a growing population of others…
those that cling on at this point are almost doing so with religious fervor, so it is unsurprising that it becomes a nasty, circular, pointless argument.
It can’t be nuanced or measured or well thought through or agonizingly evolved - it is simply you are an idiot without logic if you don’t still see how optimized having AW still in charge is. Fact is, people like me, AC, and many, many others, are basically AW worshippers who have over time soured on him because he hasn’t shown the ability to sustain the excellence and evolve with the times that we had hoped. I still love him and revere him as our best ever manager, but I want a new manager now.
Another way of saying this, is if you read enough of Oompa’s posts above recently, there is very little value in dialog.
Seriously? That horse has been beaten to death so many times over on this forum for the last 4-5 years it is ridiculous. People like him tend to argue from the specific which gets into tit-for-tat BS, and you know it. Reasonable people can consume the preponderance of evidence argument and at least concede even if disagreeing with it. Saying that there are no examples at this stage is just BS.
I don’t defend him from everything lol I am no devout Wenger fan. I have gone to lengths criticising him before. It may look like that to people who are clearly biased doing everything possible to dig for faults though, the bias is one way here.
This shite about him “not wanting to spend” is the dumbest damn myth that persists, it never had any ground to it, it has been explained by players, managers, staff, experts, the board etc. There is nothing to discuss. Get it out of your heads, he does not restrict his own spending, it is just not his fucking money lol it is sooo simple. Or you can of course keep repeating it like some broken record and cry whenever you’re confronted with how absolute crap your whole reasoning is.
So there is very little value here? No arguments for my case, is that what you mean?
So I say we played Sanchez up front twice earlier, indicating he is in deed also a striker?
He plays up front for the Chilean NT, indicating he is also a striker?
Wenger said the same thing in an interview, he was tried up front, not an argument for Wengers intentions?
We also played RvP and Henry wide, indicating it says nothing here? Not an argument?
Burden of proof that Wenger isn’t trying lies on the accuser, is that not an argument?
Claiming it is poor understanding to question why we buy a striker if we have one? You need more than one striker?
Lack of value?
See how there isn’t a single bloody reply to any of this? Why do you think that is.
Inv. says he doesn’t spout shit like this so I quote him from the Lucas thread where he makes claims like “Wenger would never spend £20m on a striker” or that we bid for Suarez, Vardy and Lacazette just to make it look like we’re trying or we just bid a few thousand to make it look like we’re trying? No value in this by me?
Or do you just identify so well with InvincibleDB10 because like him you just spout shite with nothing to it, then you avoid talking to me directly and talk to Oliver instead because you know that I would destroy you in an argument if you went in?
Is this where I just get a smug short reply?
I think I actually told you (not sure) before, specifically, that I am no devout Wenger supporter, I think AKB is a dumb abbreviation used by crybabies, but I will defend my own players and manager if they’re accused of shit that isn’t their fault. Period. It is nothing more than that.
Or is anyone supposed to feel sorry for you that I am rude and use foul language and I’m being a dick just because you (for the sake of argument) or someone else (in this case) shit chat Arsnal players or staff, on an Arsenal forum, and me as an Arsenal supporter for at least 25 years is supposed to respect that when it is based on false ideas? As if I’d treat a Spurs supporter any different, but that’s more or less how I see some here nowadays. I’d get less detective work looking for errors in Wenger on a bloody Spurs forum I’m sure.
Again, arguing from specific and not trying in the slightest to understand… re: Sanchez, it is well discussed - he wasn’t used reliably as striker for his first two years at Arsenal. Give me a break.
You are trolling or righteously obnoxious. We have enough of that over here with Mr. Trump, thank you very much.
People have made the point how we are bullies, beating the 7-20 quite easily (which West Ham is), and struggling in the higher profile games and against certain managers (Koeman). Which puts a ceiling on where we are going to be at the end of the season. But pointing that out again is probably being too negative and all that.
Ye that’s the type of response I was expecting. Trying to understand… understand what. the cosmic flow of space time? I am the one who understands the biggest picture. Someone who argues Wenger “persists” with shitty players at a time the board asks him to break even, sell his best players etc. WHICH ARE CONFIRMED STATEMENTS both by players and staff, does not understand the bigger picture.
I am one of few who have been specifically calm on OA since the Emirates project began, because I knew it would take years of no money until we could start buying a new team again, until then we go for CL football and chill, it is perfect optimisation. Wenger didn’t leave for RM or PSG CONFIRMED to have approached him. I am calm because I saw this coming, and it is not Wenger’s fault. This is interpreted by dumbos who hate the shit out of the manager as me defending him from -anything- which is crap. I defend him from this accusation.
Sanchez well explained - he wasn’t used reliably as a striker, exactly. That was perhaps the intention though? Since we tried him up front, twice? Early on the first time as well, Yes or No? Wenger bought Henry who was a wide player at the time as well, yes or no? And if Sanchez wasn’t effective enough upon trying, we train him to be, yes or no? And now he is, so we can play him there and it is a major success, he is joint top scorer, yes or no?
Break not given, would like reply on the second paragraph, thanks.
It’s not just that those games throw up less wins. We can’t seem to win enough of those games, because (clever) teams know how to play us and because of the lack of results in those games we don’t have a actual chance of winning the League. Or something like last season needs to happen, but we bottled that too.
It was serious problem in 13-14, City got 19 points of those games and we got 12, and it pretty much is the reason why we are trailing Chelsea.
But yeah. We beat West Ham 1-5. Don’t want to be negative.
Chelsea 3-0? Bayern? City? United? We have beaten big teams convincingly.
We were the only team to beat Leicester twice last year. Of course there is inconsistency in high profile games, that’s kinda why they are high profile / competitive.
If Sanchez was bought as a striker then why did Wenger wait for two seasons to start playing him in that position?
You say we need more than one striker.
Who said we only had one striker?
We had Giroud, Sanogo and Welbeck, so if Sanchez was going to be our starting striker, then what was the point in having Vardy.
How difficult is that to understand?
After a series of posts by you, just throwing out verbal abuse and insults, I would have thought a short sarcastic reply wouldn’t be a problem.
[quote=“oompa, post:2097, topic:125”]
and me as an Arsenal supporter for at least 25 years is supposed to respect that when it is based on false ideas?
[/quote]So what?
What difference does it make how long you have been a supporter?
Does it make your opinion more valid, or does criticising something you don’t agree with make you any less of a supporter.
I said before the transfer window that we needed a DM and CB, and was heavily criticised for it by supporters like you, who said we had enough quality in those positions.
I was also told the same before the previous transfer window when we only bought a GK, when it was clear we needed strengthening in other positions.
Some posters told me I should go and support another club or I wasn’t a proper because I dared criticise Wenger, and that we didn’t need strengthening, and we went into that season with Flamini as DM.
If you and others think that Wenger can do no wrong and are happy with what he does, that is your opinion, you’re welcome to it.
But don’t expect everyone else to agree with it.
The difference between me disagreeing and you, is that I won’t hurl personal abuse or insults at you, I will just voice my opinion.
maybe, but not by me. Even though I’d prefer another signing there is no heavy criticising.
Unlike you perhaps they understood that you can’t just walk into 7-eleven and order a Ronaldo and pay for it, so I’m wildly guessing that was the issue, could be wrong though. I remember me clarifying that basic concept to you somewhere once, not sure. Has nothing to do with this, anyway. I remember plenty of people wanting more than a GK though.
“dare”? Self-imposed? There is no bravery in not understanding things and getting angry. Criticising him for not giving himself more of someone elses money and interpreting it as him being shite at his job is just daft, nothing else. Persisting with it in 2016 is annyoing, nothing else. Since he could spend he bought Sanchez. Özil, Xhaka and Mustafi for serious money, all who have been absolutely stellar. He shifted out nearly his entire starting IX since he got to spend, so much for “persisting” eh, so much for saving money, nah, events took place exactly as I, the club and the manager always described them. And it has been done well by Wenger considering is my opinion, that we can argue but not the reasons behind it.
Stop assuming you can’t criticise Wenger. Assume that when you spout a myth that has been a shite argument for half a decade as an explanation for why the Arsenal manager is bad, at an Arsenal forum, someone will call your suggestion shite and argue with you. Take into consideration that all the insults, dumb as they may be (I agree), come after reading the same shite 10 times by you. Not the first. Not the third time.
Why do you make things more complicated than they already are.
You come out with ridiculous strawman arguments like, “you can’t just walk into 7-eleven and order a Ronaldo and pay for it,” when I’ve never suggested otherwise.
You still didn’t answer why the length of time you have been supporting a club has any relevance.
Also you keep saying we need more than one striker, but if Sanchez was going to be the staring striker, why did we need Vardy when we have Giroud and Welbeck as perfectly adequate cover.
As for, “reading the same shite 10 times by you,” if it’s too much, don’t read it.
But if the same things happen every season then unfortunately the same things will be said by everyone.
Because you don’t understand seem to understand simple things. I am answering direct questions with direct answers, even though I honestly am not supposed to provide evidence, you are, you’re the one with the theories. I have evidence, in the squad and on the pitch.
That’s something that you brought up, that had nothing to do with the topic we discussed, that I didn’t say in your example, and I took a guess and quoted something else I think I remembered actually saying to you on the topic clearly stating it was a guess. Says a lot that that is what you got from it though. Getting short on actual arguments are we.
I did answer. I like the club, and the manager. You are naive to think dumb theories will stand uncontested on an Arsenal forum where long time fans hang out who actually like the club and staff and players, so stop crying over it.
Surprisingly I assume, having more than one is better, and Sanchez had maybe not convinced entirely before in his intended striker position. Should be good news that he is good now but I expect you to be too full of hate to admit that Wenger got it right. If you’d mean you’d rather have a CB that’s fine, again I didn’t criticise you heavily, I wasn’t one of them.
I’d ignore you if I could, but I decided to argue against you so that you don’t convince other people of your arse conspiracy theories of how Wenger handles money or buys players. Goes hand in hand with you thinking you can hate on my manager on an Arsenal forum and expect to not be contested, same reasons as stated above.
Is the difference clear here? Three different conversation types. If you say Wenger should’ve played this guy instead vs this team - we discuss his tactics. If you keep going on about how he persists with shite players when it is clear he was economically restricted and asap he wasn’t he bought better, I will contest because it is a shite theory and has been explained and proven all over by all parties involved. Say he only bids a few thousand to look like he tried is pure bullshit, I don’t have to prove anything, you do.
