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Thread: Why is Wenger hated so much these days? - IORP's Question Time

  1. #61
    Silver member Super Collider Champion flower match 2 Champion Extreme Blocks Champion Number Revolution Champion Chicken Went Nuts! Champion Bunny Hop Champion Zombie Zombie Champion shamrockgooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsOnlyRayParlour View Post
    I still fail to see how it has any relevance to my point about why Wenger gets so much hatred? Are Ramsey and Wenger on the same level now in terms of what they've done for the club? It's like me saying I love chicken but getting quoted by someone saying i contradicted myself because I said I hate KFC, bares no relevance whatsoever.

    Wenger has left something for this club in the long term (financial and reputation wise) that not even Ferguson has done for United. The ungrateful bastards that call themselves supporters are too dumb to even notice this. Also i'm not even going to read your nonsense on the stadium, if you believe we'd have moved to a new stadium if we kept that guy who signed Bergkamp, you're deluded as fuck.
    I've clearly identified the Ramsey thing as separate and basically just said I found it funny how you were trying to wriggle out of it. Wasn't me who initially brought it up either but don't see why I can't mention it seen as it has been. I haven't said you've contradicted yourself anywhere either so not sure what you're getting at there.

    I'm not going to take you serious if you call what I've said nonsense without reading it. We definitely would have moved to a new stadium had Bruce Rioch remained manager, but Bruce himself would have had fuck all input.


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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamrockgooner View Post
    I've clearly identified the Ramsey thing as separate and basically just said I found it funny how you were trying to wriggle out of it. Wasn't me who initially brought it up either but don't see why I can't mention it seen as it has been. I haven't said you've contradicted yourself anywhere either so not sure what you're getting at there.

    I'm not going to take you serious if you call what I've said nonsense without reading it. We definitely would have moved to a new stadium had Bruce Rioch remained manager, but Bruce himself would have had fuck all input.
    Well it's in the same thread and same post, and you aren't the first person to say that so it's kind of a general response to all. I'm not wriggling out of it, I still stand by it and it might look cuntish thing to say from the outside but I couldn't give a fuck to be honest, he's earning about 45k a week, i'm sure he'd laugh if he heard that.

    You believe we'd have filled out a 60k stadium, under Rioch? The 'boring boring Arsenal' selling out every week? I don't believe the global interest in Arsenal and financial gains Wenger brought to the club from 96 onwards would have happened if someone like Rioch or someone else is in charge, obviously it's difficult to tell but I'm sure of it.



  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrice View Post
    You are fucking clueless.
    Lol says the old fool who deduces that Ibrahimovic 'flopped' in Spain.

    Your opinion begins to bear little weight when you spout nonsense like that.

    Do yourself and everyone a favour and take up knitting old codge.


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  4. #64
    Silver member Super Collider Champion flower match 2 Champion Extreme Blocks Champion Number Revolution Champion Chicken Went Nuts! Champion Bunny Hop Champion Zombie Zombie Champion shamrockgooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsOnlyRayParlour View Post
    You believe we'd have filled out a 60k stadium, under Rioch? The 'boring boring Arsenal' selling out every week? I don't believe the global interest in Arsenal and financial gains Wenger brought to the club from 96 onwards would have happened if someone like Rioch or someone else is in charge, obviously it's difficult to tell but I'm sure of it.
    Right, so the parameters have changed now. It's not whether we would have moved stadium but whether we would have filled it? The Highbury capacity was an issue long before Wenger ever came to the club, moving stadium would have been the logical step once all efforts at redeveloping Highbury had been exhausted regardless of who had been in the managers seat.

    Also I don't think Rioch didn't really get enough time to develop a brand of football so I don't think it's fair to guess at how that might have gone. And no, that isn't me saying we should have kept Rioch because history tells us appointing Wenger was the right thing to do.



  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradyMagic View Post
    Does anyone believe that Arsene Wenger would be willing to accept outside help and someone else brought in who might be able to include their input on matters and so he would be prepared to see that happen for the good of the club, or would these previous claims that he would do anything in the best interests of the club ring hollow if he refused?
    There is no way he would accept outside help. I believe I read an interview with him where the interviewer asked Wenger about the prospect of Usmanov coming in and handing him a blank check. Wenger said he wouldn't spend the money because it would be irresponsible (or some drivel like that).

    The fact is once you let someone accumulate that much power, you can't just take it away. Giving authority to someone is like sending it into a black hole, the power won't come back to the Board, the club or anyone else until Wenger is removed.



  6. #66
    Look at the people that criticise Wenger. Almost all of them were at some point AW supporters. What is different is when they realised Wenger had lost it, some 6/7 years ago some after the Bradford loss some last year after we sold Cesc and Nasri, others after we sold RVP, some after the latest debacle vs Blackburn. These are people who have clearly demonstrated that given facts they can change their mind and are not stubborn enough to stick to one point of view.

    Now look at the people on here that defend Wenger no matter what happens. Its the same 3/4 members. They will defend Wenger no matter what. If we dont finish top 4 they will still defend him. If we go another 8 years without trophies they will spend those 8 years dreaming up new and more creative excuses to absolve Wenger of all responsibility. They are like a broken record, they are boring, their excuses are boring and I am tired of their bull shit and I cant even take them seriously anymore because I already know how they will respond. Note how you will never see them even criticise Wenger's most obvious tactical errors or absolute flop buys. While we praise Wenger when he gets it right and criticise him when he gets it wrong they only praise him when he is obviously right, praise him when its debatable whether he is right or wrong and stay silent, try to ignore it or pretend it never happened when it comes to commenting on buys like Santos and Gervinho. How can such people be taken seriously who are clearly unbalanced and seem to be obsessed with Wenger and follow him like some religous nutcases?

    Stop making excuses and start seeing the reality. Most Arsenal fans are beginning to see it, the rest of the world sees it but you dont. Sometimes I wonder whether you support Arsenal FC or Arsene Wenger FC!


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  7. #67
    Squad Player bitterandstout's Avatar
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    Why is he hated? Wenger is broadly seen as an idealistic, stubborn prick. Feelings that I admit to have quite often lately, watching us slide lower and lower is painful. But do I hate him? No, not at all. As a supporter I rightly or wrongly equate success as winning silverware and being competitive with the best in England and Europe. His dogged devotion to the project and his financial philosophy towards the game are both laudable and laughable when measured by trophies. I realise there is more going on here than the simplistic trophy argument, and though my patience is as thin as the next fan. I hold to what I believe are my final hopes for the club. Those are when the stadium is paid for, we have a proof one way or another regarding financial fair play and the Yank sells up and moves on. Until then, my money will be released to the club in very measured doses.

    Oh the Sun has it that Wenger has been offered a contract extension, more grist for the mill.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-contract.html
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    Last edited by bitterandstout; 18-02-2013 at 01:40.


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  8. #68
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    Because of the strange team selection decisions. He is basically ruining the club and his own legacy at that, the fool! Get him and those money-grabbing tosses out the club!



  9. #69
    Arsenal Maniac pawan's Avatar

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    I cannot believe people are saying Emirates is not due to Arsene and that it would have happened anyways.

    I mean, so Steve Jobs was just another CEO in Apple and the iPhones and the iPads would have happened anyways even if someone else was there instead of him. Fair enough. But then Steve Jobs shouldnt deserve credit for anything that happened at his time at Apple, no?


    I am not saying Wenger shouldnt be criticized over our performances. He is the manager and hence he has to to take the blame as much he takes the credit. But doesnt mean that it is always his fault. It was not his fault at Blackburn or Bradford or even against Brimingham. He did what he could do, put out strong teams, which failed to win.
    At the same time, I think it was his fault that he failed to motivate players in general and the larger fact that we havent won anything for the last 8 seasons.

    We make scapegoats out of people because it helps us give a better excuse for something we believe in not turning out to be as good as we thought.

    The biggest example from the last game? I first hated, absolutely hated Gervinho for missing that chance for a goal. But then I realised that Giroud, being a striker, has missed easier chances, so the whole thing cant be dumped on Gervinho, even though the media is hell bent on that.

    But how many are actually talking about Theo Walcott failing to track back and remaining static and looking pretty when Olsson ran and took the shot which was turned into the goal. The shot, and hence the goal, was the direct result of Theo's failure to track back and hence he is responsible for the loss as well, but nobody is dumping the blame on him yet. Unfair world.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawan View Post
    I cannot believe people are saying Emirates is not due to Arsene and that it would have happened anyways.

    I mean, so Steve Jobs was just another CEO in Apple and the iPhones and the iPads would have happened anyways even if someone else was there instead of him. Fair enough. But then Steve Jobs shouldnt deserve credit for anything that happened at his time at Apple, no?

    Steve Jobs is the founder of the company and visionary behind the majority of apple products. A very different scenario to a man coming into an organisation when it was already 100+ years old. No Steve Jobs, no Apple. Would Arsenal not have existed if not for Arsene Wenger?

    Like I've said a few times now the capacity at Highbury had been an issue for the club before Wenger eve came along. We had Board members like David Dein and Danny Fiszman who only saw a bright future for the club and had tried to increase Highburys capacity only to be met with local opposition and planning barriers. Had that succedeed would people be saying it was down to Wenger?

    Arsene simply didn't run the show in those early years the way he (suposedly) does now. I have absolutely no doubt he was involved in the project right form the start though. The success he brought would have been seen as an extra factor in the decision to make the move but not the over riding one.



  11. #71
    Stubborn as fuck! BradyMagic's Avatar
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    Bruce Rioch was here for one season and added Bergkamp and Platt in that season and went up from 12th place to 5th, on the same number of points as the 4th team and with the same GD and only lost out on goals scored for 4th and we had something like a 12 point improvement on the previous season and what would an extra 12pt every season for the past 7 or 8 have given us? Not that I'm saying that's the best way of looking at things.

    As for going by a brain dead chant from opposition fans of "boring boring Arsenal" apart from the small fact that tended to originate from George Graham's days where we counter it with the "one-nil to the Arsenal" chants, there's a chance going around under Arsene Wenger that goes "same old Arsenal. always cheating" despite being sung when a player gets hacked down by an opponent, so shall we attach that one on the Wenger then?....Oh and ask yourselves this, wouldn't you have taken a 1-0 on Saturday or is a certain game in Paris in 2006?

    It comes to something when you are willing to use the chants of embittered away fans just to score a cheap point and denigrate your own club and to at all costs support a manager that on the grand scale of things in the history of the club is only involved for a very short time.

    I'll also repeat, regarding many of the off field changes that have happened here under Wenger time will, the date on the calendar was more important than he was in the hot seat at the time because these things were always going to happen anyway, just as they have for most other clubs, some with a lot less success than us and the game went global and that has nothing at all to do with Arsene Wenger and more to do with satellite television...........and as far as I'm aware Highbury didn't even meet the ground requirements for CL football anyway.

    Oh and I don't doubt for one minute Wenger wouldn't accept outside help either on or off field related and the Stewart Robson stories where he put the block on Steve Bould ring more true as the season goes by........and that's my problem when people say Wenger will do what's in the best interests of Arsenal when I tend suspect it as him doing what he perceives anyway to be in the best interests of Arsene.



  12. #72
    Arsenal Maniac pawan's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamrockgooner View Post
    Steve Jobs is the founder of the company and visionary behind the majority of apple products. A very different scenario to a man coming into an organisation when it was already 100+ years old. No Steve Jobs, no Apple. Would Arsenal not have existed if not for Arsene Wenger?

    Like I've said a few times now the capacity at Highbury had been an issue for the club before Wenger eve came along. We had Board members like David Dein and Danny Fiszman who only saw a bright future for the club and had tried to increase Highburys capacity only to be met with local opposition and planning barriers. Had that succedeed would people be saying it was down to Wenger?

    Arsene simply didn't run the show in those early years the way he (suposedly) does now. I have absolutely no doubt he was involved in the project right form the start though. The success he brought would have been seen as an extra factor in the decision to make the move but not the over riding one.
    Founder yes. But then he left Apple as he was not considered good enough and then started his own company. Coincidentally around the same time that Wenger took over at Arsenal, Apple asked Jobs to return and majority of his Apple products have come in that second term of his as Apple CEO. When something happens under somebody, you give credit to that person. If UK becomes the the biggest economy under David Cameron's reign, you have to give David Cameron the credit to leading UK to be the mark, even though he might have not had a hand in it and just happened to be the PM right then.

    Again, I am not saying that Wenger cant be criticized or shouldnt be, just that doesnt mean we have to strip away everything good he has brought to the club just so that it becomes easy to lambast him like the media has made a habit of.
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  13. #73
    Silver member Super Collider Champion flower match 2 Champion Extreme Blocks Champion Number Revolution Champion Chicken Went Nuts! Champion Bunny Hop Champion Zombie Zombie Champion shamrockgooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawan View Post
    Founder yes. But then he left Apple as he was not considered good enough and then started his own company. Coincidentally around the same time that Wenger took over at Arsenal, Apple asked Jobs to return and majority of his Apple products have come in that second term of his as Apple CEO.
    I was aware he'd had a period away from Apple but if anything it adds further weight to my assertion of no Steve Jobs = no Apple. I don't accept on any level the same can be said for Arsenal, The Emirates Stadium or London Colney had Wenger not come along. That is not to say he did not have input and nowhere in this thread have I tried to discredit him for what he has done and indeed I accept the stadium and training facilities are most likely better because of him and he had a massive say in lots of aspects relating to it. But there is no way I will ever accept we have the stadium down to one man

    When something happens under somebody, you give credit to that person. If UK becomes the the biggest economy under David Cameron's reign, you have to give David Cameron the credit to leading UK to be the mark, even though he might have not had a hand in it and just happened to be the PM right then.
    I don't accept that. I want a bit more from my politicians than just being there. If he/his cabinet was to say introduce a new rate of tax that attracted investment to the level which ultimately got them out of the mess then fair enough but these things tend to happen irregardless of what the government of the day is doing so personally I wouldn't attribute credit where it's not due. That's exactly what I feel I am doing in regards to Arsene by the way, giving him his dues without overdoing it.

    Again, I am not saying that Wenger cant be criticized or shouldnt be, just that doesnt mean we have to strip away everything good he has brought to the club just so that it becomes easy to lambast him like the media has made a habit of.
    I have done nothing like "strip away everything good he has brought to the club" and please don't try to make out I have done. The man is a legend in the truest sense of the word but I feel claiming we would not have physical buildings had he not come along is pushing it for me.



  14. #74
    Arsenal Maniac pawan's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamrockgooner View Post
    I have done nothing like "strip away everything good he has brought to the club" and please don't try to make out I have done. The man is a legend in the truest sense of the word but I feel claiming we would not have physical buildings had he not come along is pushing it for me.
    My initial post was not targeted at you particularly and since you took me up on it, I have to write it in response to you although I did not mean it was YOU who was discrediting Wenger, but some people sure do. You are one of the more sensible ones here and I have nothing to suggest you do anything of the kind. Dont read it that way.
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  15. #75
    Silver member Super Collider Champion flower match 2 Champion Extreme Blocks Champion Number Revolution Champion Chicken Went Nuts! Champion Bunny Hop Champion Zombie Zombie Champion shamrockgooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawan View Post
    My initial post was not targeted at you particularly and since you took me up on it, I have to write it in response to you although I did not mean it was YOU who was discrediting Wenger, but some people sure do. You are one of the more sensible ones here and I have nothing to suggest you do anything of the kind. Dont read it that way.
    That's fair enough.



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