You don't come from the "tall race" do you? Black is a shorthand way of referring to anybody who has African roots and when combined with an insult, you are specifically drawing attention to that one feature (their race) in a negative way. Thus it becomes a racial slur as far as I'm concerned.Originally Posted by ProudGunner
When one person insults another and refers to the colour of their skin then it becomes a pretty straightforward race issue for me.
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Black is descriptive, and generally accepted. If I say to my friend Marlon (who is black), "you are black", there isn't going to be a problem. If I say to him, "you are n****r", there's going to be a problem.
I think a big problem with the neo anti-racism is that it doesn't take anything in to context or have any situational awareness. Its too broad of a brush. It's generally white people telling minorities what they should find offensive.
Clattenburg could be a racist, it could have been a racist statement. But generally a true racist making racist statements isn't going to go with the nicety of referring to the person they are racially abusing with a non-derogatory lead in to the insult.
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Yes, describing someone as black is fine. Describing them as a black cunt is not. That is a racial slur. The context of the situation we are talking about is someone using race to try and insult someone. It seems slightly ironic to me that you've mentioned a lack of situational awareness considering you've ignored the obvious context of calling someone a black cunt.
And I've heard people say black cunt, white cunt, Muslim cunt plenty of times (you can substitute in different derogatory terms to cunt), it's not true at all that a racist wouldn't go with the "nicety" of non-derogatory lead into the insult.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
But that's what I'm saying. The institution is saying that, for example, a black person should take racial offense to being called a "black cunt", but on the street, and as I noted before, its the cunt part of that phrase that the black person is going to take offense to, not the black part.
However, if you call that same black person a "n*****r cunt", then they are going to take offense to the n*****r portion of the phrase moreso than the cunt portion of the phrase. In addition, that black person would be more inclined to take RACIAL offense to to the term n*****r cunt than they would black cunt.
Once again, this is another problem I have with this institutionalized 2010's syle anti-racism. The "man" has made this the most ridiculously complicated amalgamation of campaigns, slogans, and "right vs. wrong" charts that it doesn't resonate with anyone with a brain. By perpetuating this HUGE racism problem they are completely skipping over what should be important, and to use our examples, its the cunt part that really matters, because it's the lack of repect and understanding between human beings that needs to be changed, but unfortunately its probably not possible. I'm going to consider ourselves lucky that we don't have massive race wars raging across the globe and live with the name-calling.
Everyone wants to end everything in this day and age...end racism, end poverty, end AIDS, end poaching. Maybe we should try to control them before we decide that we have the ability to end them. Very interesting topic and one that can be argued endlessly.
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Thanks for the compliments. I do understand what Racism is as I have also faced Racism first hand and I have even in the past testified in court against my active employers in a case brought by a black work colleague of mine. You will be glad to know he won the case.
So trust me when I say I completely understand what Racism is.
For me Racism has become confused! I know that in most cases calling someone a black cunt will have racial connotations but it is not racist in every context!
Yes I am from the tall race and being African is not a race. Why does discrimination/abuse based on your colour attribute make it worse than discrimination/abuse based on your height, weight attribute? For me its all the same whether it is a black guy getting abused because of his race or a short guy getting abused because of his height. He feels as much pain as the black guy does when he gets abused.
You are saying Black is a shorthand for referring to a person with African roots but doesnt that make it xenophobia then? Not that I am saying that is less bad than Racism as in my opinion they are as bad as each other. But that technically would not make it a racial slur.
I think that at end of the day this is a gray area because it depends on what the guy means when he is referring to your colour (which is an attribute of a person just as height, weight etc. is). I look at it as an attribute of a person and I am able to seperate the black from "black cunt" and perceive it differently of course like morris says it depends on the context of the situation and in some cases it could have racial connotations but you also have to accept that in many cases it might have absolutely no racial connotations.
As you mentioned when someone refers to your race when insulting someone then it becomes a racial slur and I agree with this but doesnt that imply that if you use it in a non-insulting way then it is not a racial slur?
If black cunt is a racial slur then what about white trash? Ginger cunt? black bastard? etc?
Last edited by ProudGunner; 30-10-2012 at 15:49.
Quite agree, the league should be bigger than Man U and Fergie, but with the dominance over the years the PL has become Man United, unfortunately whether we like that or not, thats the case.
I think it is genuinely difficult for the PL and FA, they want a fair great league as competitive as possible but as profitable as possible, our league has just been dominated by Man U, and that has sold our game all around the world, and for whatever reason people want to see Man U win everything, I think *if* there was some sort of conspiracy to give Man U the odd favourable decision then how do you prove it, you need a whistleblower in that case, and who is going to do that, I would liek to believe that our game in England is clean and honest, but as much as I want to believe that it becomes increasingly difficult when you witness what you do every week on the TV.
what is quite clear reading all of this is that not everyone understands or knows what is and isn't racist.
therefore, if the person making the comment is ignorant or doesn't understand, how does that affect the perception of racism to that remark?
We were arguing about what constitutes a racial insult and how you go about identifying whether an insult is racially motivated. If you refer to somebody's race when insulting them, then it becomes a racial slur. I've given you my explanation for that already.
A racial insult is normally motivated by a dislike/hatred from the individual saying it towards that group of people as a whole. Thus calling somebody a black cunt is normally indicative of that person disliking all black people. Contrastingly, calling somebody a short cunt is specific to the individual you are insulting and does not necessarily mean the insulter hates all short people. That's the difference.
But you're now saying it's just as bad to call somebody a short cunt as it is to call somebody a black cunt, but that's not the issue we were discussing. I never gave an opinion on which is worse either so I don't even know why you're bringing that into it.
The North Remembers. Winter is Coming.
My own take on it because there is nothing carved in stone saying what's what is that calling someone a Paki cunt and calling someone a Spanish cunt are both racist.
You can split hairs about what's racist as opposed to what's xenophobic but splitting hairs is all you are doing because you can't apply one rule to make one xenophobic as opposed to racist and then move the goalposts when given the same type of situation but a different country as a similar example. They are either both racist or both xenophobic not one of each regardless of any explanation and you can't just use geographical ignorance on the part of the person using the term Paki as an excuse to chop and change to suit.
As regards John Terry's racist remark to Anton Ferdinand, there's nothing wrong with using the word black to describe someone (although you still get a few people with a chip on their shoulder who object to it for some unknown reason) and although not particularly pleasant, if he had just called Ferdinand a fucking cunt like he probably would have done to a white player then that's less of a problem but by saying fucking black cunt then he's introduced race into it......although as I said before, had the player been white but Irish he probably would have said fucking Irish cunt, which to me is racist in the everyday sense of the word despite people slitting hairs.
If Clattenburg called Mata or whoever it was a twat then that's different to calling him a Spanish twat and to me that's still racist as much as calling someone a black twat even though I know the arguments but as I've already said, that's splitting hairs to me as again I've already said, Terry was hardly going to call Ferdinand a "fucking person of African origin cunt" was he?
Last edited by BradyMagic; 31-10-2012 at 00:22. Reason: Typo......various lol.
Only if you go in with the assumption that the person calling someone a black cunt is already a racist prior to the incident of calling said person a black cunt. Like I said, its observational, which is inherent in human nature when indulging in verbal abuse.
For example, if a white gentleman at a store has shoved you, then proceeded to say something inappropriate and is generally acting like a POS, happens to be about 300 pounds, eating a donut and sweating profusely, it is in our brain and language skills to attach an adjective to a noun. Hence this person becomes a "fat cunt" instead of just a cunt. Whereas if the man was not obese but smelled terribly he would become a "smelly cunt".
My point goes back to the what happens on the "street", or in real life. In the heat of the moment our mechanisms don't work as fast as we need them too. So the man in the store is now black and he could become a black cunt, unless he's fat, or smelly, and then theres a decent chance that the black man is also a fat cunt or a smelly cunt, just like the white man.
This shit doesn't happen in a bubble or happen in a crappy school video on tolerance where the commentator can come in and "freeze" the action. This is taking racism down to its most micro level, it kind of reminds me of a joke my black friends always like to scare white people with:
Black guy: Why was the black kid so good at Basketball?
White guy: Because he's black?
Black guy: No motherfucker, because he practiced all of the time.
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Sol your avatar is beast.
I remember when he burried that, i was loving it, we was getting loads of stick for not having any english players in the final and he goes and gets our goal lol.
Ahhhh your all a bunch of cunts.
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I understand that there will be "malfunctions" as you say and that things can be said in a reactionary, knee-jerk manner motivated by nothing more than instinctive observation. But I used the word normally in my statement because in the vast majority of cases, I feel that somebody will put the word "black" before an insult because they intended to.
The reason I hold this view is because most people know better than to draw attention to somebody's skin colour when insulting them. Calling somebody a black cunt is controversial - anybody with an ounce of common sense would be able to see that. Subsequently, most people would never actually insult somebody using those words. It would never even cross their mind, it wouldn't even come out as a Freudian slip. But somebody going ahead and saying it anyway, in most cases, will likely give us an indication to that person's true feelings towards that person's race and thus highlight said person's prejudicial views.
Your interpretation seems to give the benefit of the doubt too freely. People don't just blurt out racial insults by accident all the time.
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Some people are racist by nature and are going to say racist thongs regardless even when in a calm situation but if a black and white person are partners and say also have a kid and they were to argue and the white partner called the black partner a black whatever, it's unlikely that they are racist and more a case of having brought a race element into their argument/insult in anger. You can bet your life that same white person would condemn racist behaviour in other circumstances and defend their black partner in others and act in any number of ways to show that they aren't racist in other situations.
Also when people are in an argument they go for the jugular and and for the thing they know hits home the most and gets the biggest reaction but does making a racist remark always mean you must be racist?
I don't know if John Terry is racist or not but I do know what he said was racist.
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