The UN Small Arms Treaty.

[g4e]

I'd like to ask our American community here what they think of the UN and Obama shitting all over your constitution (as if he hasnt done enough of shitting on the constitution with Obamacare)?

This is what i am talking about if you are unaware: http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...t-of-the-deal/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...t-of-the-deal/


It wasn't until my mid 30's that i understood the 2nd amendment to the US constitution the civilian ownership of guns, so i was always anti-gun as it seemed not a day would go by without a major event involving guns on Americas streets. when i sat down and bothered to learn why you have the 2nd amendment i quickly become pro-gun.

This now makes more sense: 151285_UN_twisted_gun_statue.jpg. i always wondered why they didn't have a tank's gun barrel or missile tied in a knot

Just thought i would throw that in so people would understand my position on the matter.

Anyways, how do you feel about all this gun grabbing that's going on? are you pro or anti-gun and why??

[sunburntgooner]

Sorry G4E Not American but my position is that everyone should be allowed the choice. That is the beauty of the constitution it gives the people the power to choose not be told what to do. We all should be able to live our lives the way we want to that the should be the fundamental right of every single idividual on this planet.

We then should all be aware that every choice we make then has consequences attached to it! then accept responsability for them!

[g4e]

No problem, i wanted to hear what our American members think of this because it affects them directly, but i would also like to hear what people have to say on the subject. I.E. if they agree with the UN shitting on US sovereignty and it's constitution, and having a President going along with this blatant attack on US sovereignty.

I couldn't agree more! 1 thing that is sadly in VERY short supply in the modern world is responsibility. everyone expects the Govt to do everything for them and then are shocked when the Govt wants to hire people who are not bonded officers and have them grope your wife and kids, or that there is a camera on every street corner watching your every move assuming you are guilty without having the burden of proof.


I might add that the last time a power wanted to take the American peoples guns it started a war of independence (i know that taking the guns wasn't the root cause, but taking the guns was what started Americas war for independence).

[Barciur]

Not really sure how is this treaty shitting all over the 2nd amendment. It's not a ban as far as I know?

Also, not sure how has he shat on our constitution with the Obamacare. Would love to hear some explanation.

[kaner]

fucking hell, not even trying to enter the debate but i seriously, if you think "obamacare" is a bad thing you are a strange one

[kaner]

No problem, i wanted to hear what our American members think of this because it affects them directly, but i would also like to hear what people have to say on the subject. I.E. if they agree with the UN shitting on US sovereignty and it's constitution, and having a President going along with this blatant attack on US sovereignty.

I couldn't agree more! 1 thing that is sadly in VERY short supply in the modern world is responsibility. everyone expects the Govt to do everything for them and then are shocked when the Govt wants to hire people who are not bonded officers and have them grope your wife and kids, or that there is a camera on every street corner watching your every move assuming you are guilty without having the burden of proof.


I might add that the last time a power wanted to take the American peoples guns it started a war of independence (i know that taking the guns wasn't the root cause, but taking the guns was what started Americas war for independence).

what about the US numerous attacks on Venezuelan sovereignty?

[g4e]

fucking hell, not even trying to enter the debate but i seriously, if you think "obamacare" is a bad thing you are a strange one

I suggest you go read the bill! if i understand you correctly...you think a socialist health care system with SHIT LOADS of tax money wasted on bureaucracy is good? seems to me you are the strange 1!

what about the US numerous attacks on Venezuelan sovereignty?

What about the 2 illegal and manufactured wars in the middle east?! this is a discussion about this blatant attack on the US constitution, not about the worlds problems.



@Barciur: the 2nd amendment guarantees every citizen the right to keep and bear arms. this was written in to the constitution to guard against the Govt becoming a tyranny (which if you look closely, it is a tyranny). if Obama signs this UN treaty it means the 2nd amendment will be gone and the US will be forbidden from arms manufacture. the treaty also stipulates that only the UN will have the right to arm it's troops.

[Barciur]

I suggest you go read the bill! if i understand you correctly...you think a socialist health care system with SHIT LOADS of tax money wasted on bureaucracy is good? seems to me you are the strange 1!

You said it's shitting on the constitution, prove it.

@Barciur: the 2nd amendment guarantees every citizen the right to keep and bear arms. this was written in to the constitution to guard against the Govt becoming a tyranny (which if you look closely, it is a tyranny). if Obama signs this UN treaty it means the 2nd amendment will be gone and the US will be forbidden from arms manufacture. the treaty also stipulates that only the UN will have the right to arm it's troops.

Again, prove to me that a treaty regulating international trade of weapons and has no impact on domestic policies will do that.

[shamrockgooner]

So gun control and healthcare are bad.

Cool....

[g4e]

@Baciur:

IN SECTION 2552, you will find a definition of what the U. S. Government means by the term “disarmament”. It reads:
(a) The terms "arms control" and "disarmament" mean the identification, verification, inspection, limitation, control, reduction, or elimination, of armed forces and armaments of all kinds under international agreement including the necessary steps taken under such an agreement to establish an effective system of international control, or to create and strengthen international organizations for the maintenance of peace.


I suggest you go read the rest of the treaty yourself because they also define in that treaty what they mean by "arms control" and "disarmament" and "to create and strengthen international organizations for the maintenance of peace".

So gun control and healthcare are bad.

Cool....

Gun control...that depends on why...if it is to "protect the power monopoly of the state" (that last in quotes is not my statement but Govts in the US and UK) then yes!

As for the so called health care system...what figging health care system!? oh, you mean the long waiting times for AnE, or the very long waiting lists for surgery and operations of all kinds, or do you mean the MEGA bureaucracy which eats into ever expanding budgets...budgets that could be better spent on PREVENTING all types of ailments instead of spending MEGA BUCKS trying to cure you AFTER the fact?

[Barciur]

Still have yet to see where there is anything about domestic gun control mate.

Also, please point me to that treaty then because so far you are only quoting US domestic laws, not the treaty.

As for the so called health care system...what figging health care system!? oh, you mean the long waiting times for AnE, or the very long waiting lists for surgery and operations of all kinds, or do you mean the MEGA bureaucracy which eats into ever expanding budgets...budgets that could be better spent on PREVENTING all types of ailments instead of spending MEGA BUCKS trying to cure you AFTER the fact?

Yeah, except the 50 million Americans who can't afford insurance don't get any of that that you're talking about.

[g4e]

TBH mate, as far as Obamacare goes, all the arguments for and against is besides the point, the point being that Obamacare is unconstitutional in that the IRS (an agency which is in itself unconstitutional as is the federal reserve) will be the agency collecting the Obamacare tax.


As for the gun grabbing, it already happened, remember Katrina? the army went house to house in areas which were not flooded (Posse Comitatus prevents the military being used on US streets) kicked peoples doors in, they took their guns and dragged them from their homes, even though they had large stocks of food and were self sufficient. many people were left to fend for themselves after their guns were taken and had no protection from vandals and thieves. some people (even the elderly) were beaten up. there are also reports (cannot find anything online yet, but haven't had much time to look) that the NOPD (New Orleans Police Dept) went around rapping women who had been disarmed by the military.
You also have Leon Panetta i think in March telling the congress that they don't need congressional approval for there next war, UN and international approval is all they need...that statement alone is sufficient proof of high crimes and misdemeanour's....in short...high treason and completely unconstitutional....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUJjXDjFYNo


I haven't got time at the moment but i will post the links for the Katrina stuff later.

[sunburntgooner]

@g4e your preaching to the converted with me man.

@Baricur that 50mills a false figure anyway wasnt it cos 35mill were under different policys anyway i.e college or employment, or under age that was just a figure published by Obamacare to justify the healthcare in reality what they did was screw 250mill out of their plans to pay for 20 mill but hey thats 20 mill more votes theyll get in november!
Believe me from where im sitting your better off with your constituation and private health and if you dont believe me look at europe if it wasnt for Germany half of europe would be crumbling.

[g4e]

@g4e your preaching to the converted with me man.

Unfortunately for us Brits, we have had this socialist and non-functional "health care" system for so long that we are acclimatised to feel that we cannot do without it


The same could be said of gun rights. we used to have the right to own firearms (and if i'm not mistaken-the Magna Carta states that all British citizens have a duty to learn to use whatever weapons-are shall we say...in fashion. IE. if this was the 1500's, we would have a duty to learn to use swords, the long bow, spears etc etc. today it would be guns) but that right was taken from us in the 20's.

[gunnerpr]

no idea why one of the most civilised countries in the world need guns. Not very civil.